DESSERT (a.k.a. Bonus Content)
Baked up by Monica Arnaldo, Jessixa Bagley, Betsy Bird, Martha Brockenbrough, Lian Cho, X. Fang, Jess Hannigan, Eliza Kinkz, and Rachel Michelle Wilson A cookie cake of things we said that couldn’t fit in the official dinner conversation You can read our “official” dinner conversation in Shelf Issue Two, but we had so much more to say that we decided to keep chatting over here. We invite you to join the conversation in the comments.
Rachel Michelle Wilson: Why do you make funny books for kids?
Eliza Kinkz: Like many authors who had a lonely childhood, humor provided me an escape, and I could NOT get enough of it from a young age. TV, movies, books...if it was FUNNY, I was all IN! Fast forward to today, and I would say that writing funny books is in a way creating the books I WANTED to have as a kid. And I love the idea of me providing that laughter to other struggling kids, and my books being a sunny spot in their lives.
Jess Hannigan: I’d say that if I’m going to enjoy any kind of story at all, it’s probably got to be some kind of combination of two things between scary, funny, romantic or all three. That’s just what grabs me and keeps me locked in, so it makes sense that it’s also what I like writing.
Lian Cho: I’ve always enjoyed a good joke. Perhaps I got it from my dad, who always made a good pun or perhaps it was from listening to far too much Flight of the Conchords as a child. Either way, humor has been with me my whole life. I think in some ways, as it is with many comedians, it has been a coping mechanism. Overall, humor has made me more confident as a writer and speaker. It has forced me to come out of my shell and attempt things like live stand up comedy or speaking to hundreds of kids in a school auditorium. I think humor has also allowed me to be more forgiving with myself, as it’s taught me to not sweat too many of the small things. Oftentimes a joke might not land, but all we can do is brush it off and try another!
X.Fang: Humor is a great vehicle to know yourself. I know a fart joke will always make me laugh, and a joke that is cruel or made at another person's expense will always be repulsive to me. This is why I make funny books.
Betsy Bird: When I grew up, I read a lot of comics. I liked funny movies and funny books, but I wouldn’t have called myself a funny person necessarily. I was a very quiet child. I never raised my hand, and I'm also very conflict averse. Humor is great if you're conflict averse.
Martha Brockenbrough: I was just reading on one of my nerdy science websites that the ancestor we have in common with chimps and bonobos made jokes. And if science says humor goes back to the fossil record, well. Insert funny bone joke here.
Rachel Michelle Wilson: Why are funny books sometimes dismissed?
X. Fang: I don't think funny books are dismissed, but maybe they're overshadowed. Humor IS a legitimate art form and like all art forms, it requires a high level of craft and emotional intelligence. People should take humor seriously because when you don't you get books that are "funny" but not really...and the implications of un-funny "funny" books flooding the market is that we as a society have devolved into humorless AI chatbots (hyperbole is funny).
Martha Brockenbrough: They’re not dismissed by kids. They’re dismissed by adults, who are Serious Thinkers. Not all of my books are funny. Not even all of the ones that try to be funny. An editor once told me, “Martha isn’t as funny as she thinks she is.” But you know what? That’s baloney. I’m exactly as funny as I think I am, which is medium. Being funny is a human birthright, and no one gets to gatekeep what’s funny.
Lian Cho: I feel like humor is often viewed as junk food. It’s delicious, tastes great, and makes you feel good. The difference is that humor doesn’t increase your blood pressure or make you more prone to heart disease. In fact it may be the opposite as you may get an abdominal workout from laughing (don’t quote me on this). My theory is that it’s because laughter is something we embrace when we are children. Children laugh often, even at the smallest things. Even deaf babies laugh, without hearing others. But as we grow up, we’re taught that we must be serious, worldly, and intellectual. Then all we want to be taken seriously like how could we possibly get that promotion at work if we enjoy humor?
Eliza Kinkz: For some reason our society has deemed serious books worthwhile, and funny books not. Which is utterly ridiculous. STOP IT ADULTS! And it's not just in books, but it is in entertainment as a whole. When in reality, humor is so important as it helps us get through life. Can you imagine just taking in sad, sad, and more sad every day? YUCK! Good humor is so hard to do, but when it is done right, it should be properly celebrated!
Rachel Michelle Wilson: What do you wish we did more of or less of in the children’s book industry?
Lian Cho: I am hopeful about all the many different voices emerging in the industry. I do a lot of college talks and it’s exciting to see all the up and coming talent. There are a lot of stories out there, and I’m hopeful that we can bring about a change in the industry, one where there is space for any kind of story, whether serious or funny.
Betsy Bird: The whole reason I did Funny Girl was because after Diary of a Wimpy Kid came out, I had kids asking, “What else you got?” I was able to pull out funny stuff and, at the time, it was very easy to pull out the men. But now a large chunk of the funny books are coming from women. So I do think things have gotten better. We're not at the point of perfection by any means, but it’s not the same landscape as when I made Funny Girl.
Jessixa Bagley: I wouldn’t say I feel like the industry intentionally discourages women from being funny or weird or wacky, but I think it’s easy to see that men are rewarded more when they make out-of-the-box work–that unconsciously affects women to hold themselves back. I have LOTS of hope in the industry though because of the sheer volume of talented funny female book makers. We are here. A lot of funny women I know don’t make funny books. I don’t make as many funny books as I know I have inside me. I think we just need to be encouraged and given more validation and recognition and permission to be ourselves.
Martha Brockenbrough: This is a call to action for every marginalized person to venture into comedy. We need these voices now, more than ever. And I think the more we understand about how humor can work as a revolutionary tool, the better. Because you know what’s gonna be really funny? When the patriarchy slips on a banana peel and smashes itself.
Monica Arnaldo: I think a frustration many of my peers and I share is the lack of awards out there geared specifically towards funny children's books.
Rachel Michelle Wilson: So what would it take to get a humor award going…Betsy?
Betsy Bird: ALA is very, very reluctant to add any more awards. The awards they have added tend to be from other organizations that they're partnering with. Like the American Jewish Library is how they have the Sidney Taylor Award and the Asian American Pacific Islander Award also comes from a subgroup. So you would need a larger organization tied to children’s books that is good at promotion and won’t disappear in five years. Then ALA could bring in the award through collaboration or it could stay outside of ALA as long as it was well-known enough.
Rachel Michelle Wilson: I hope all of us humor enthusiasts can find a way, because a humor award would provide a designated space to encourage the celebration of and investment in more diverse funny voices.
Betsy Bird: I'd say in our award winners now, I do feel like humor is getting more attention in some ways – especially the people who can mix humor and heart together. I think this is because we all feel sadness in basically the same way with some gradations. Humor is completely different. Some people can feel sadness, but they don't have any sense of humor. So having the humor and the heart together can appeal to a broader base, especially for a committee who needs to agree on the same books. That's the key for the award winners – those who get the final push in those final voting rounds. You’ve got to amuse us as well as entertain us and give us something literary. Which is a hard thing to do.
Rachel Michelle Wilson: Why are funny books important?
Eliza Kinkz: Funny books are beyond important for young readers as it can bring connection. Have you ever shared a sad part of a book with a friend? Well I haven't, but I have shared plenty of funny moments with friends! And who doesn't love seeing an illustration or joke that immediately makes you burst out laughing? I love connection over a fart joke.
Betsy Bird: When you become a children's librarian and you join these committees, the people are like, “Oh, it's a great work of literature!” It's very easy to forget, “Is a kid going to enjoy this?” The easiest way for a child to enjoy something is humor. Because even if it's not their humor, they can see that it is supposed to be funny, and they kind of give it credit for that to a certain extent. Plus we're trying to give them stuff to deal with the anxiety of the world. Humor is a good way of doing it.
Jess Hannigan: Humour also needs multiple layers of understanding to get a joke to land properly. When it does, you and the writer now have a special connection, you got it, you get them, they get you. I like feeling nudged and winked at. Subverting expectations, playing with the medium, getting meta, comedic timing, etc.. It’s so important, like anything that gets kids to enjoy reading. Not only can it serve them better in life, but it’s such a great medium for it, especially picture books.
Lian Cho: For me, humor has been a wonderful way for me to engage others. I think in some ways, humor disarms people, it disarms yourself, and makes things more accessible. The world can be so bleak at times, it can be nice to at least put a fun spin on the bleakness. Ultimately, I think funny books are important because they help to encourage readers to actually enjoy reading. It helps to broaden our world views. Through reading, we learn to empathize. A funny book can often act as a gateway to reading. Reading a funny book is, simply put, fun, so why is it so bad that we make reading fun?
X. Fang: Kids are so incredibly empathetic and fair! When kids see the absurd and ridiculous in books, they laugh and tell the adults all the things that are absurd and ridiculous in the story world and how it could be made right. I can only hope that when kids see the absurd and ridiculous in the REAL world, they won't laugh but will call it absurd and ridiculous and try to make it right.
Monica Arnaldo: Kids are funny-- they just are. They're hilarious, even--every parent knows this. So why wouldn't we offer our kids books that reflect back that core aspect of themselves?
Jess Hannigan: Kids are the world’s best audience, and if you talk down to them, they will know it right away and think less of you. Respecting the power of a fresh, inspired kid brain will make you a better writer, which gives them more cool stuff to read, which will probably motivate them to make cool things too, and that’s just good for the world.